Author Topic: Arma 3 - Ctrl, Shift, etc etc not working (Read 37630 times)

Donkeyfumbler · « **on:** July 29, 2016, 10:48:06 AM »

Hi,

I've been using voice attack for a while now and recently re-installed it on a new machine, copying over my saved profiles. It's been a while now, but this definitely used to work OK.

Now however, while simple single keypresses work OK in Arma 3, anything using a modifier (Ctrl, Alt, Shift etc.) does not. I've tried changing from standard to direct x for the keypress, running VA as admin, recording the keypresses but nothing seems to work that I can see.

When I try the commands in notepad, they work fine however so it certainly seems to be a thing between VA and Arma 3 (that wasn't an issue the last time I played several months back).

Any ideas?

Cheers.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2016, 02:39:13 PM »

I am sorry to confirm this issue. I haven't checked all the keys but Right Control and left Control don't work in VA. In version 1.5.18 or 1.15.19 (prerelase) the CTRL keys definetely worked.

I am running both VA and ArmA 3 as admin, my operating system is Windows 10 Pro 64, I also tried recording the keys, I tried 0,1 seconds anf 0,5 seconds. I use a German QWERTZ keyboard and the language of my system is German.

Keys that I couldn't get to work in VA have always been an issue for me. I already posted this in the old Google forum. Unfortunately I didn't get any help. My workaround: I reconfigured the keys in question until I found a combination that worked. But now that both CTRl keys and potentially all modifiers cannot be used I have no chance to reconfigure the keys considering that the ArmA game and related mods use all keys on the keyboard.

I'll be grateful for any help.

Gary · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2016, 03:25:16 PM »

Have you tried breaking up your command into separate actions?

For example

Press ALT down
Pause 0.05 seconds
Press X down (or whatever key)
Pause 0.05 seconds
Release X (note reverse order)
Release Alt

When modifiers are used in the same action (Press CTRL + X), the keys are being passed in at the same time (or virtually the same time). This may be too fast for Arma to pick up. Let me know if that helps.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2016, 08:12:50 AM »

Gary

Thanks for your quick reply!

Unfortunately breaking up the command into separate actions did not help. There are already several commands in my profile where I found that this method worked better than simply activating all keystrokes at the same time. Actually "breaking up the command" is what I called "recording" in my message. Anyway, I tried it again, this morning, for safety's sake. I also made sure that the order of pressing and releasing the keys is correct. My standard delay is 0.1 seconds to be on the safe side. The command was recognised but not executed. ArmA3 and Voice Attack are open in two windows on the same physical screen. ArmA is clearly taken as the active window because many other commands are properly executed by VA.

The commands in question worked every single time in the pre-release version and stopped working as soon as your current stable version was used for the first time. There have not been any changes in my profile during this time.

I am testing every single command in my profile and perhaps I can provide some information which helps tracking down this issue. Unfortunately this will take some time. I have tested only one single command yet which uses Shift as a modifier and this particular command was executed flawlessly. So this spot check seems to indicate that Shift works for me.

Edit 30 July, 17:08: A brief interim report: I found that some commands which use CTRL as a modifier work, while others don't. Here's a list of commands which don't work: Individual keys: Menu key, Left and Right Windows, Home. Key combinations: Ctrl + Home, Alt + Page up, Alt + Page down.

Gary · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2016, 12:29:37 PM »

Thanks for the info.

Quote

Menu key, Left and Right Windows, Home. Key combinations: Ctrl + Home, Alt + Page up, Alt + Page down

Are you saying these do not work in Arma or do not work at all? I loaded up my German/QWERTZ layout against wordpad and was able to use those keys in both standard and directx modes. Also tried it out in some keyboard test software and each key down/release is recognized.

Something else to note is to make sure all your keys are in DirectX mode in the command. I know that sounds weird, but I've had a few emails in the past where only the first action was actually DirectX (the rest were standard mode).

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2016, 01:21:40 PM »

Thanks for the reply, Gary.

I have used VA and tested the keys only in ArmA3. Tomorrow I will try WordPad to verify the results.

I am sure that my profile was made in directX mode. Otherwise the commands wouldn't have been recognised in the first place, would they? But I will double check and report back.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2016, 05:26:19 AM »

During the last couple of days I have tested various things, double-checked that commands are in DirectX mode, used Notepad. The result is frustrating: I still can't use a profile which worked before the latest stable version was installed.

I am testing the command "L-Ctrl + Numpad Divide" as an example. This particular command doesn't do anything in Wordpad, but I checked that my voice is recognised by VA, that the keys work in game when I press them on the keyboard, and that the command is given in DirectX-mode. VA is run in admin mode and I experimented with delays between 0.1 and 0.5 seconds. I tried both the keypress method and the recorder. Other commands which work, do recognise the active window of the game. Still no effect in the game.

Is there anything else I can do? I don't mind doing systematical and thorough tests, maybe with a recent beta version? I am attaching my profile in case you want to check for user errors.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2016, 07:35:02 AM »

Some more info on the problem of keys which are recognised but not executed. I tested them in the game ArmA3, made sure that all commands are given in DirextX mode and the duration of key presses and pauses is between 0.1 and 0.5 seconds. Despite the suggestion I have not tested this in WordPad. I simply don't know what output to expect from these key combinations in a text editor.

Keys and key combination which don't work:
App Menu
Left Windows
Right Windows
Home
Ctrl + Home
Shift + Home
Alt + Page up
Alt + Page down
Delete
L-Ctrl + / (Numpad)
Ctrl + Up Arrow
Ctrl + Left Arrow
Ctrl + Right Arrow
Alt + Up Arrow
Alt + Left Arrow
Alt + Right Arrow
R-Ctrl + M

Some of the keys and key combinations which do work:
Ctrl + Space
Ctrl + V
Ctrl + R
Ctrl + ^ (This key is located below Esc and left of 1 on a German keyboard)
Ctrl + L
Pause
Ctrl + Shift + Tab
Alt + Shift + H
Ctrl + Alt + Shift + M

This seems to indicate that some keys (such as Ctrl) seem to work in combination with certain keys and fail to work in other combinations. If it was a new profile I'd suspect a user error but it is a fact that these commands worked perfectly well with one of the pre-release versions of VA. The exception in this list (which is not complete in order to keep this posting manageable) is Right Windows. This particular key and a few others also didn't work in the old version of VA.

Again I repeat that I'll do whatever I can to provide more information. I am also willing to discuss the matter via Teamspeak and Teamviewer it this approach saves time.

Gary · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2016, 01:24:20 PM »

Are you running any third-party apps like TeamViewer or Synergy?

Gary · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2016, 03:43:40 PM »

Quote

Again I repeat that I'll do whatever I can to provide more information. I am also willing to discuss the matter via Teamspeak and Teamviewer it this approach saves time.

Lol... I answered my own question. Try turning of TeamViewer and see if that makes any difference first.

Gary · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2016, 04:32:19 PM »

I took these that you listed for a quick spin:

App Menu
Left Windows
Right Windows
Home
Ctrl + Home
Shift + Home
Alt + Page up
Alt + Page down
Delete
L-Ctrl + / (Numpad)
Ctrl + Up Arrow
Ctrl + Left Arrow
Ctrl + Right Arrow
Alt + Up Arrow
Alt + Left Arrow
Alt + Right Arrow
R-Ctrl + M

I added each of them to VA in DirectX mode with no pauses (for sanity check) and ran it against a third-party key press recording software. I was able to see that each of the keys were pressed in turn in US English, German and German QWERTZ keyboard layouts (selected through control panel). I also pressed each of the keys using the hardware keyboard for validation and ended up with the same results. I am not sure what is going on between your VA, your OS or Arma (or all three), as I do not have Arma or a German installation of Windows. I do know that if this were a more widespread problem, Pfeil would be all over this... speaking of Pfeil... where did he go? He must be on vacation or something

Pfeil · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2016, 05:55:28 PM »

Quote from: Gary on August 06, 2016, 04:32:19 PM

speaking of Pfeil... where did he go? He must be on vacation or something

For these game-specific issues, I can't do much if I don't own it. Get people to ask some interesting scripting questions instead

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2016, 08:04:50 AM »

Thanks for the replies! I understand that it is difficult to verify this without owning the game and the OS. Unfortunately I don't know much about the technical background of the application. I can only say it works or it doesn't. And it did work with the old version. Teamviewer would allow you to actually check it on my PC with the game running. But obviously Teamviewer is not an option if it messes up VA. Just for the record: Currently neither Teamviewer nor similar programs are installed or in use on my PC. My current problems cannot be related to Teamviewer.

So what are my options? There are so many commands that don't work for me that changing the keys in the game won't help. Could you send me one or two of the more recent pre-release versions and let me check if one of them works better for me? Or do you have a better idea?

Gary · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2016, 08:30:42 AM »

There is no prerelease available at the moment. One is in the works, but it is kind of, 'guts-out'.

My only suggestion right now is to check the Arma forum and see if there is anybody out there using VoiceAttack with it. Find out if they have a way around what you are experiencing if they are having the same problem. Outside of installing Arma in a German version of Windows, my hands are rather tied. Sorry about that, bud

Donkeyfumbler · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2016, 08:34:35 AM »

Sorry - I've been on holiday for a week after starting this topic so haven't been able to contribute, but it looks as though Alpha-Kilo has basically been doing everything anyway as his experience mirrors my own.

I had not played Arma for about 12 months but when I had used it last, and with the version of voice attack that was around at that time, I was able to use commands like Ctrl and F1, Ctrl and F2 etc.

However, playing the latest version or Arma with the most recent version of Voice attack and using the same VA profile that had previously worked fine, I find that commands using Ctrl, Shift and Alt do not work any more.

I have played around and verified that a command like copy (ctrl + C) and paste (ctrl + V) work in notepad ok but when I configure the same key combo for an action in Arma 3, it does not work. I can't say I've tried the same in any other game (not that many give you the same extensive configuration options as Arma does anyway).

I have found that sometimes, after trying in Arma 3 and then alt-tabbing out to windows, the keyboard sometimes behaves as if the Ctrl or shift key is stuck or pressed down (i.e. pressing 'F' opens the find dialog in the way that Ctrl + F would do normally).

Obviously something has changed in either Arma 3 or Voice Attack to cause this issue but I have no idea which of the two it might be. It's frustrating as Arma 3 was the reason I bought Voice Attack - it makes the game so much easier to play given just how many keyboard commands there are for it. Appreciate that it's tricky to troubleshoot if you don't actually own the game though!

Oh, and my language and keyboard are English (UK) so fairly sure it isn't a language or keyboard problem.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2016, 10:47:49 AM »

Donkeyfumbler,

Thanks for confirming that it is not just me who has the problem. I also use VA exclusively for ArmA3.

Gary,

I follow the official game forum and several other international and national mil-sim forums. Only a few ArmA players use voice control software. The most popular ones seem to be Voice Activated Commands and GlovePIE, but some do use VA and share profiles, etc.

In space games VA seems to be the market leader and may profiles are available in several languages, including German. In the little ArmA community I have not heard of any VA profile in German, apart from my own. Apart from languages (this is connected to the choice of OS, obviously), there is another factor: Almost everybody uses voice control to control AI bots under the player's command.

My profile barely touches the surface of commanding AI subordinates, I concentrate on the player and the game. I use VA to control stances, weapons and other equipment, etc.

In short: I don't think I can compare findings with another German user. If, however, a German ArmA player happens to be following this thread, I'd be glad to hear from you.

It's a pity that you don't have an older version of VA - I am sure, Donkeyfumbler could use it too - but it was my mistake not to store it in the first place. I will surely experiment more and I will patiently wait for your next version - it is great that you keep working on the stuff. I will also make more tests with VAC which I also own though I haven't touched it since I installed VA. It might be interesting to know whether the same errors occur in both programs.

Edit: I have just gone through my files and I found a Voice Attack installer dated 17 April 2015. This may help. The size it 4.915 KB. I'll be glad to send it to you, Donkeyfumbler, if you give me your email address or by PM on this forum if size and the type of file aren't restricted.

Edit2: I also have a beta installer dated 21 May 2016. File size is 5.658 KB. This must be the version which worked for me and I will revert to it and report back.

Donkeyfumbler · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2016, 01:10:16 PM »

I'll be interested to hear what your findings are and if the older version works - of course it may be that something in Arma has changed (there are a lot of updates) and this is what is causing the problem, in which case I think we are stuck.

If the older version of Voice Attack works, it may help Gary narrow down what might be causing the problem in the new version.

Look forward to hearing what you find.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #17 on:** August 08, 2016, 10:18:08 AM »

I made a quick check of all available versions of VA with just a few of the problematic key combinations. This was a spot check rather than a thorough test.

OS - Win 10 Pro 64 German version
Game - ArmA 3 Apex 1.62

Result:
VA version 1.5.12 - Doesn't work
VA version 1.5.8.19 - Doesn't work though it did before
VA version 1.5.7 - Does work

Does this make any sense, at all?

Gary · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2016, 08:48:46 PM »

So, I unpacked the v1.5.7 executable and tried it against an app called ViewKeyCode.

In v1.5.7, there were some keys that were not mapped or mapped properly in DirectX. In the case of R-Ctrl + M, the right control key. What was going on was that the left control key was being used. Some time after that, work was done and the right control key was added in. The arrow keys with control were also mapped to the arrow keys on the numeric keypad and the home key cluster was not set up as extended keys. So, effectively, v1.5.7 (and before) was a right mess in regards to DirectX, so I'm a little confused as to why it seems to work. I'm really having a hard time with this one, as ViewKeyCode is receiving all the keys I am sending to it, both press and release (from previous tests). Since Donkeyfumbler is using an English keyboard, we can rule out the German Windows idea. The search continues...

Quote

VA version 1.5.8.19 - Doesn't work though it did before

Could you elaborate on that a bit?

Quote

It's a pity that you don't have an older version of VA

http://voiceattack.com/SMF/index.php?topic=293.0 (its at the top of this board)

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 09, 2016, 03:16:25 AM »

Gary

Thanks for continuously investigating this strange matter.

I played a game, last night, using 1.5.7 and indeed R-Ctrl + m didn't work. Reading you post explains why. But Ctrl + Numpad Divide and a few other keys which are problematic in the latest stable version, worked fine. As I said, my experiment with 1.5.7 was just a spot check.

Re: 1.5.8.19

I originally installed this version when I became aware that it was available. Most keys worked and I could re-configure the few that didn't. Recently I installed your latest stable version and ran into the problems we are discussing. I found the installer for the pre-release version on my hard disk, deleted VA and installed 1.5.8.19 again hoping to find the keys that had previously worked with this version would work again. Much to my surprise they didn't.

Re: older versions:

Thanks for the link to the older versions. This gives me another thing to check: I will do some spot checks with 1.5.8. stable.

A wild guess:

In one of your postings on this thread you said that you tried the keys in question successfully. Also the majority of the users (with different keyboards, different language settings, different OS) don't seem to have any problems in this regard. Could it be that the installer - not VA itself - somehow causes problems with certain rare configurations?

I am saying this because I read several reports in the old google user group written by people who experienced similar problems - not many, but enough to let me hesitate before purchasing the full version. They all complained about keys which were recognised but not executed but the keys they couldn't get to work were not always the same ones. At the time this was attributed to non-US keyboards and kanguage settings, if I remember correctly - but this theory is off the table, now.

Donkeyfumbler · « **Reply #20 on:** August 09, 2016, 12:47:40 PM »

Interesting. I'm just trying 1.5.7 and it seems the same for me as the newer version.

A bit more detail on what happens for me:

As an example, if I configure Shift and T to be the 'Select Team Member 2' control in Arma 3, if I then configure Voice Attack to press those keys (Direct X) for 0.1 secs when I say 'Two' nothing happens.

However I can see that in Notepad it does indeed type a capital T when I say 'Two'.

If I configure Arma 3 to use just T to select Squaddie 2 and then say 'Two' in Voice attack (still leaving VA configured to press Shift + T) it does indeed select Squaddie 2.

If I then configure Arma 3 to use Shift to select Squaddie 3 (again still leaving VA configured to press Shift + T) and then say 'Two' it selects both squaddies 2 and 3 (suggesting to me that voice attack is not sending Shift + T as a combo but as seperate key presses - but only to Arma 3 as Notepad is fine)

Oh, and if I change the key press to Standard from Direct X nothing happens in Arma 3 at all.

Changing the time of the keypresss to 0.3 seconds makes no difference.

Trying to use the 'Recorder' instead of keypresses does not work - nothing happens in Arma 3.

Hope this helps anyway.

Donkeyfumbler · « **Reply #21 on:** August 09, 2016, 01:22:33 PM »

OK, I think I'm going mad saying 'Two' now

I've found that the situation I described below only happens when a core Arma 3 mod is loaded (CBA, or community based add-on).

With no mods loaded (which I probably should have done before

) I've discovered that the problem only lies with the right based modifier keys (Right Ctrl, Right Alt and Right Shift). Configuring key combos with the left based keys appears to work fine but doing the same with the right based keys results in nothing working (this is with the most recent version of VA I should point out).

So now we have two seperate issues - one with Arma 3 with CBA loaded as described in my previous post and one with Arma 3 with no mods. Unfortunately CBA is pretty much a required mod for anyone playing Arma.

However, as the problem seems to lie with the interaction between Voice Attack and Arma 3 (and CBA if you use it) and Gary does not have Arma to play around with, I'm not sure we are going to get anywhere

Something must have changed in CBA, Arma 3, VA or even all three as they were all happily working together at one point - a real shame.

Cananas · « **Reply #22 on:** August 11, 2016, 03:23:52 AM »

Ok. I have Arma 3 (but I must install it again). Now I am at work, but when I go back home I will install and I will give a try. I helped Gary with some issues wit iracing, so be sure we will solve it.

One thing is clear. The VA script for Arma III must be done using DirectX mode. Forget the standard mode, because Arma III uses DIK codes (Direct Input) to recognize the keyboard, so each key has its own code: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/DIK_KeyCodes

For people that do not know what is CBA (like me), here is a little explanation: https://dev.withsix.com/projects/cca/wiki/Keybinding

There are other programs that do the same: https://github.com/ChuangTseu/Skipop_KeybindActions_A3/wiki/Keys

As I say, I will try Arma III (without any mod) later.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2016, 06:31:47 AM »

Great, thank you Cananas! If you have any questions about the game I'll do my best to help you help us.

About CBA: CBA is something like a framework of technical features which modification and addon makers can use to develop their content. CBA itself does not provide any playable content. CBA's key changer is used only by mods or addons which introduce their own commands. The standard keys of the game can be configured without CBA.

If you intend to install ArmA3 without any addons or mods, you don't need CBA. Should you wish to try any mods or addons, however, just install CBA to be on the safe side. Most but not all mods require CBA. If CBA is present but not required, it won't do any harm. In other words, you can install it with the vanilla game but it shouldn't do anything.

Cananas · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2016, 11:32:57 AM »

OK. Here are the result of my first test:

Creeted a new profile in VA: When I say "inventory", I will press R-Ctrl+T. Of course, I changed the key mapping for the inventory in the game to R-Ctrl+T: Neither FreePie and VA (DirectX) worked.

I tried the same keys combo in Elite Dangerous. This time, if I pressed R-Ctrl+T, I would show the armament: It worked with FreePie and VA (DirectX).

I tried then with another combos: R-Ctrl+Home, R-Alt+T, R-Shift+T,... All they worked in Elite Dangerous using FreePie or VA (DirectX).

So, I tried the R-Shift+T combo in Arma III: It worked using FreePie, but it did not work with VA(directX), neither using the press and release or press down and press up.

Sorry, but I'm lost. I seems that some combo keys also do not work using FreePie, and others works with FreePie, but still not with VA.

Lastly, I checked with ViewKeyCode:

The combo R-Shift+T (work with FreePie but not with VA(DX)):

The combo R-Ctrl+T (not working with FreePie or VA (DX)):

Gary, as you can see, in the first case, "R-Shift+T", there is only one difference between VA, and FreePie and the real keyboard in the results: the flag. But I'm lost, because I thought that the 0x02 flag is to indicate the extended keys...

In the second case, in the 3 situations (FreePie, VA and real keyboard), all have the 0x02 extended keyboard flag. The only difference is the result in the MakeCode. Again, I,m lost here, because I always thought that this is the DIK code.

Also, think that those combo keys work in Elite Dangerous, that also needs the DirectX mode.

I think that all keys that has a DIK code different from the normal scan code do not work. For example, the arrow keys do not work in Arma III, but they work in Elite Dangerous and iracing...

I hope this has some meaning for you...

Gary · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2016, 07:31:03 PM »

That always helps, so thank you very much

I put a build out in the, 'unoffical' bin if you guys want to try it. Just download and put in your VoiceAttack installation folder (overwriting your previous version). http://www.voiceattack.com/unofficial

I put a new beta out with the updates in it as I will be out of pocket for the next few days: http://www.voiceattack.com/beta

If you guys don't mind, would you also try Arma with Standard Mode enabled? I'm curious if this version will affect that. Let me know how it goes!

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #26 on:** August 13, 2016, 01:55:38 PM »

Just a quick comment:

I've been testing the new beta 1.5.12.5 with good success, so far. Most of the problematic key combinations I have tested so far seem to work now.

Examples are R-Ctrl + m and Ctrl + Numpad Divide. These and other combinations work in standard mode, not in directX. The commands which worked before still work in directX mode. The result is a profile which consists of a mix between standard and directX commands and each and every command has to be checked.

But not all keys are recognised properly: Both Enter keys are recognised as the main Enter key. The Numpad Enter is not recognised as a separate key but as a copy of the main Enter key.

I am not done yet, but whatever you did in this beta version seems to do the trick. It would be much easier to have only one variant that always works instead of having to check all commands individually for their effectiveness but I am glad that I can continue to use my profile.

I also have to say that speech recognition is not as good as it was in the previous versions. Many commands have to spoken several times before they are accepted though the speech engine has been trained many times. I read the suggestion to create a new Windows Speech Recognition profile and I will do it.

Gary · « **Reply #27 on:** August 13, 2016, 02:16:29 PM »

The mixed mode is only for the beta. I am working to consolidate everything, but ran out of time. I would try moving all of your commands to standard mode and see if they work. If so, no more mixed bag

Quote

But not all keys are recognised properly: Both Enter keys are recognised as the main Enter key. The Numpad Enter is not recognised as a separate key but as a copy of the main Enter key.

You've kind of hit on the reason why there is a, 'DirectX' mode for keys. I'm not in a place where I can try it all out, but what I remember is that from the desktop, Windows does not differentiate between the enter keys. It's been so long, I can't even remember all the reasons... I'm working toward a unified solution, though. I want to try to handle that stuff automatically. What I don't want to do is eliminate something that somebody out there is using, so I will need to comb through it all carefully.

Alpha-Kilo · « **Reply #28 on:** August 20, 2016, 02:46:53 PM »

Gary, here are some more test results of VA beta 1.5.12.5:

On 13 August I mentioned the corrupted speech recognition. Creating a new Windows Speech Recognition profile completely solved this problem.

In the latest beta all commands I checked were changed from DirectX to Standard mode and they do work. I haven't had the time to check every single command but so far the only key that does not work is Numpad Enter which you already explained. I changed a few commands back to DirectX and this mode works as well.

Is this an expected result? Do you want me to try anything else in Arma before you make the next version?

Gary · « **Reply #29 on:** August 21, 2016, 02:10:27 AM »

I'm not sure what causes the speech profiles to get corrupted. Could be any number of a billion things

I have to go over all that VoiceAttack has going on and try to make things more automatic for the end user. My goal is to eliminate the need to have to choose a mode, or at the very least minimize the need to do so. I've prioritized this over most everything else. I am finally back at home and will resume work on this in the morning. Thanks for helping out!